oldhacks (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

direct democracy is real in 24 states. and it works. so what are you afraid of when you're confronted with the idea of us all voting on federal proposals? what harm could it do to turn our polls and petitions in real government action?

oldhacks (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

the founders were slave merchants. How on Earth can you idolize someone that had 80 children with his slaves?

oldhacks (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

statists? you mean people that believe in America? we dont have the power to do Jack Shit because of the confines of the Constitution.

ed2276 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

The idea of direct democracy is worthy of ridicule. I will look into the National Initiative more closely to see what it is all about. As it is said (at the risk of more cliche) the devil is in the details.We definitely do need to solve the "conundrum of broken representative government" and we "liberty minded folks" do need to come together.As to your reference to the "greedy protest mentality" I don't know what you mean by that. Would you define that for me?thanks

ChannelMikeG (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

BTW, this comment has many cliches that I have seen from Ron Paul supporters to ridicule the concept of direct democracy. A suggestion: Don't derogatorily call the National Initiative "pure democracy" if you want your comments to be taken seriously. If we're ever going to solve the conundrum of broken representative government, we'll have to get past the greedy protest mentality that's keeping us in the dark ages. That would mean actually having a consensus among "liberty minded folks."

ChannelMikeG (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Yes, I think working at the state level would be a better use of effort, but realize the limitations that you have with the barriers inherent in the system.There are clear procedures for enacting an initiative outlined in the amendment and act. A vote on an initiative doesn't come to pass on the whim of an individual. Criteria for qualification can be set through petitioning or polling to measure public interest.

ed2276 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Advocate for a pure democracy if you want, I will not join you. The Founders spoke forcefully against such a system. If you can tell me how 200 million individual lawmakers enacting their own special laws is a practical possibilty please do so. It is a recipe for chaos and disorder. We need more people like Ron Paul in office and then things would change. If we cannot get there on the national level yet, I suggest we start on the state level.

ed2276 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

We have had the power to send representatives who would stay within the confines of the constitution and over time we stopped doing that and started sending statists there, who have cemented for themselves every power they could want to enlarge their own wealth and power over us and we have let them do it.We still have power to check their unjust laws, if not through elections then through the power we have as jurors not to convict our fellows who are charged under oppressive, unjust laws.

ChannelMikeG (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

How is it a "practical impossibility" with the incredible wasted effort that is being put into these elections? If there is a will, there's a way. We certainly have the technology to do it. (Look around you.)Switzerland has been doing it for a very long time and there's a lot we could learn from them. Getting good people into office is not enough. Decent people are effectively forced to compromise their integrity for political survival in the unlikely instance that they are elected.

oldhacks (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

liberty for the elites, nothing for the common man.